The Branding Mistake that Cost Founders (& How to Avoid It) ft. Hien Lam | The Ryan Morrison Show
About Hien Lam
Hien Lam is the Co-Founder of Huck Finch, an Ann Arbor-based brand strategy and Webflow development studio specializing in early-stage startups and purpose-driven brands.
Speaker at The Lean Startup Conference (2017) - Delivered an Ignite talk on "Joyrides: The Lean Startup-Inspired Tool to 10x Your Business"
Co-host of "Life on Brand" and "The Bourbon & Brand Show" - Podcasts featuring entrepreneurs and changemakers who live life on their own terms
Designer at Fair Food Network - Creating design solutions to improve food access and economic opportunity
Founder of Chillpill - Philosophy blog blending Stoicism, Buddhism, and Minimalism into a modern practice called "Sabi-Do"
The Immigrant Experience: Building From Adversity
Hien Lam's story begins in the Bay Area of California, where his parents—Vietnamese refugees who fled the fall of Saigon—met as day laborers picking strawberries in central California. His father, a Vietnamese-Japanese immigrant who came over in 1975, and his mother, a Chinese-Vietnamese refugee who arrived by boat in 1981, instilled in him a deep appreciation for opportunity and meaningful work.
Growing up presented unique challenges. When Hien was just one year old, his father suffered multiple strokes and became paraplegic. This experience shaped his entire childhood as he spent his formative years as a caregiver alongside his mother. "Any good Asian, I always jokingly say, I had aspired to be a doctor because of all the bad care that he received," Hien recalls. "I was like, he deserves better and other patients do too, and I want to be a doctor that can provide good patient care."
This caretaking experience, while difficult, provided Hien with invaluable alone time that sparked a desire to explore the world beyond his immediate surroundings. After spending time in Germany during high school, he made the unconventional choice to leave California for the University of Michigan—a decision that would set the stage for his entire career trajectory.
Standing Out by Doing Things Differently
At Michigan, Hien's approach to education reflected a philosophy that would later define his business strategy: standing out by choosing the road less traveled. While most pre-med students gravitated toward biology or engineering, Hien deliberately chose a different path.
"I've always been kind of drawn to doing things differently," he explains. "If people are doing this, then how am I ever going to stand out? I always just kind of see like, if I'm going in the same direction as everybody else, there's no way for me to compete. I'd rather be like a big fish in a small pond."
He majored in History and minored in Buddhist Studies—an unusual combination for a pre-med student. What began as a search for an "easy A" in an Intro to Buddhism course (he got a B+) evolved into a deep philosophical exploration that would inform his entire approach to life and business. Hien even spent time as a temporarily ordained Buddhist monk, deepening his understanding of the philosophy beyond its ritual elements.
After Michigan, he earned a Master's degree in Healthcare Administration from Saint Louis University and worked at the St. Louis VA Health System. But despite checking all the traditional boxes of success, something was missing.
Buddhism Meets Branding: The Philosophy Behind Huck Finch
At the heart of Hien's approach to branding lies a core Buddhist concept: samsara, or suffering. "The most important thing in Buddhism is the idea of samsara," he explains. "If there's nothing else in the world that connects each and every one of us as human beings, it's that we all suffer in some way or another."
Buddhism teaches that suffering stems from our attachment to permanence—our belief that things will last forever. This philosophy translates directly into how Huck Finch approaches brand work. Rather than helping companies build brands around temporary products, they focus on creating authentic brand identities that can evolve and scale.
The name "Huck Finch" itself reflects this philosophy of standing out. Combining characters from their favorite books—Huckleberry Finn (Mark Twain) and Scout Finch (To Kill a Mockingbird)—the name embodies their desire to be different. "We wanted to have personality," Hien says. "We want the brand to be a personality."
Scout Finch, in particular, resonates with Hien's approach. "She's strong. She stands up to people. She stands up for what's right in her mind. And she's also just rebellious," he explains. "I just saw a lot more of myself in her than I did in Atticus."
The Common Branding Mistakes Startups Make
Through years of working with startups, Hien has identified a critical pitfall: founders often conflate their product with their brand.
"The biggest one always is they view the product that they're building as the brand," he observes. "That's the most common pitfall that a startup will fall into. And the most common reason why they have to rebrand is because the name is so connected to this product or their all the messaging is related to this product, and then the moment they try to get into a new market or they're trying to launch a new product, it just won't work."
He uses Duo Security as an example. While they're known for two-factor authentication, their brand isn't limited to that single product—they can expand throughout the cybersecurity space because their brand identity transcends any one offering.
The Pillars of Effective Branding
Hien breaks down the essential components of brand strategy into several key pillars:
Brand Promise: What promise will you fulfill as a brand if someone uses your product or service? Your marketing must communicate this promise to customers, partners, and employees, while your product must actually deliver on it. "Most of the time, brands either have really great marketing and the product does not fulfill the promise, or the product is really great but they can't get anybody to convert," Hien explains.
Brand Pillars: These are three key messages that support your brand promise and communicate how you're doing things differently. "You're not the only one doing what you're doing, but you're the only one doing it the way that you do it," he emphasizes.
Messaging Strategy: This bridges the gap between what you want to communicate and what your audience will understand. Hien shares a powerful example from his time creating a health education program for orphans in Nepal. Instead of teaching about "germs"—a concept foreign to the children—he reframed the message: "There are spirits in their hands and they there are good ones and there are bad ones, and they need to wash away the bad ones before they eat."
The lesson? "You got to meet your customers or your audience where they are," Hien emphasizes. You need to "know your customers' problems so well that they believe that you've actually experienced it yourself."
Personal Branding in the Age of AI
As AI tools proliferate and content creation becomes easier than ever, Hien sees a countertrend emerging: the hunger for authenticity.
"There's just so much noise," he observes. "You can quickly see like, oh, this person is clearly just doing this because they're just working the algorithm. I don't want to play into that. I want people who genuinely want who are going to enjoy what I do."
He points to the current trend of AI-generated images as an example of oversaturation. "It's cute and all, but like it's also so stupid," he says bluntly. "You saw someone else do it, now you're doing it. No one's paying attention to it, and if they are, they're just annoyed with it."
His prediction? The pendulum will swing back. "We're going to push so far in the pendulum to AI that everyone's just going to want to swing back the opposite direction. Can I just get something that's non-AI related, please? Like I just want something real."
This mirrors what he's seeing with Gen Z's embrace of analog technology—digital cameras, cassette players—as a reaction to being born entirely in the digital age. The greatest opportunity in branding over the next few years, Hien believes, lies in "leaning into non-AI stuff" and creating genuine human connections.
Building the Midwest Tech Ecosystem
Beyond his work at Huck Finch, Hien is passionate about building up the Midwest tech ecosystem. He sees Michigan and the broader Great Lakes region as having untapped potential that rivals the coasts.
"I think we're doing a shit job of it," he says frankly about current efforts to promote the region. "You don't need to go to New York. You don't need to go to LA. You don't need to go to the Bay Area. Like you can do it here."
He envisions Michigan becoming a blueprint for other Midwestern states. "We create the blueprint for every other state within the Great Lakes region to be able to replicate for themselves to successfully build up their tech ecosystem," he explains. This approach reflects core Midwestern values: "There is such a sense of community and a sense of like giving, unlike California, unlike New York, where it's very much like dog eat dog."
The geography of the Midwest works in its favor. "We can drive from here to Chicago in three and a half hours. We can drive to Columbus in three and a half hours. Indie is about three and a half hours away as well," Hien notes. "All these places are within arms reach of each other. We should be trying to build a network, trying to be collaborative, trying to grow this community."
He's coined the term "Third Coast" to describe the Great Lakes region—neither East Coast nor West Coast, but a distinct ecosystem with its own advantages and culture.
The Huck Finch Approach: Joyrides & Efficiency
Huck Finch specializes in working with growth and late-stage tech companies (Series B and C) through their main brand, while their newer venture, Grabbag, focuses specifically on early-stage startups from pre-seed to Series A.
Their signature offering is the "Huck Finch Joyride Workshop"—a lean-inspired approach to brand development that validates ideas through short-term, lower-cost experiments before committing to full execution. This methodology, which Hien presented at the 2017 Lean Startup Conference, builds trust with clients by reducing risk and proving value upfront.
For early-stage startups working with Grabbag, Hien has developed packages aligned with specific startup milestones: raising a first round, pivoting based on customer discovery, or preparing for launch. "I look at a website as a business tool," he explains. "It should look nice obviously, but when you make the website look good a table stake, then it really forces you to have to wonder: if any other studio, other agency can make a good-looking website, what else am I bringing to the table?"
His answer: anticipating needs before founders realize they have them. "I have to drive the bus where I can drive the bus because I know what they don't know," he says. By the time a founder realizes they need a pricing page, they needed it two weeks prior—and with Hien's approach, it's already built and ready to launch.
Final Wisdom: Start with the End in Mind
Throughout the conversation, Hien returns to a central theme: the importance of defining success on your own terms and working backward from your desired legacy.
He compares this approach to the classic demonstration with rocks, pebbles, and sand in a jar. "You always start with the big rocks first, and then you put in the pebbles and then you put in the sand last because it actually helps you to fill the cup," he explains. "But if you did it in reverse, if you start so granular, then you actually can't fit everything into the jar."
For founders feeling stuck in careers that look successful from the outside but feel unfulfilling, Hien's advice is clear: get uncomfortable with being uncomfortable. "I just wanted to be able to expand my horizon and I wanted to not get stuck in comfort," he reflects on his decision to leave California for Michigan. "I just wanted to get to be uncomfortable and be comfortable being uncomfortable."
This philosophy—blending Buddhist teachings about impermanence, Midwestern values of collaboration over competition, and a stubborn commitment to doing things differently—has allowed Hien to build not just a successful business, but a meaningful one. As he and Matt continue to champion the Ann Arbor ecosystem and build authentic brands for purpose-driven companies, they're living proof that success and fulfillment don't have to be mutually exclusive.
Memorable Quotes from the Episode
"I've always been kind of drawn to doing things differently. If people are doing this, then how am I ever going to stand out? I'd rather be like a big fish in a small pond."
"If there's nothing else in the world that connects each and every one of us as human beings, it's that we all suffer in some way or another."
"We were essentially living the American dream, but we weren't happy."
"One day when this business is no longer existence, what impact do you want it to have had?"
"You're not the only one doing what you're doing, but you're the only one doing it the way that you do it."
"You got to meet your customers or your audience where they are."
"I don't want to play into that. I want people who genuinely want who are going to enjoy what I do. If you don't, that's fine. We can't be for everybody."
"The more that we can shout it out about how great Ann Arbor and Michigan is in general, the better. We should be bragging about all these things."
"You don't need to go to New York. You don't need to go to LA. You don't need to go to the Bay Area. Like you can do it here."
"Just be as authentically you as you want to be."
Links You May Find Valuable
Hien Lam's Work:
Huck Finch - Brand strategy and Webflow development studio
Grabbag - Branding for early-stage startups
Chillpill - Philosophy blog on intentional living
Connect with Hien:
Resources Mentioned:
Duo Security - Example of effective brand strategy in cybersecurity
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